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Hosting yourself

 
 
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MassDebation
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:31 pm    Post subject: Hosting yourself Reply with quote

Ever considered this? We're hosting ourselves, and it's going okay nowadays - although there were some teething problems in the beginning.

Anybody else here hosting themselves?
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Beansprout
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How do you mean "hosting yourselves" - I presume you rent some colo space and rack up a server?

I don't see the need to do so unless you need a custom server config or have other special needs.

It's so simple to buy shared hosting, or even rent a dedicated server (maybe that's what you mean) and get some managment/monitoring included for a decent price, that I wouldn't consider co-location unless I had my own staff in close vicinity to the datacentre.

If you mean you rent a dedicated server then that's cool...a) you're not restricted as in a shared environment, b) you normally get much greater bandwidth allowances and c) you have the flexibility and power of a whole server. Mmmm Very Happy
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MassDebation
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No I mean stick it under your bed, on top of a cupboard... no hosting costs whatsoever... besides your connection. . Laughing

It works a charm! Of course, comes the time we've got enough of a bandwidth need, we could go with a leased line, assuming there's enough income for it.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What, running a server from your bedroom?? I guess it's ok if you're running a personal site or something that isn't generating a lot of income, but for anything serious it really isn't a good option.

There are the major problems of fire, flood and theft for starters, plus the downtime and other pottential losses of income from any of the above.

Bandwidth is an issue such as the 10G/bits this site has been pulling recently, plus at a data centre you get maybe 100M/bit fully burstable connection to use instead of 256K/bits for ADSL. At 9.30 this morning we were pulling over 400K/bits a second so it just wouldn't have worked, and that's just one site.

With managed servers there's usually some spares around so if the HD goes for example there's someone there who can replace it. Also due to the monitoring systems, you can find out about problems you didn't know about, eg: one of our server hard drives is slowly going which the server company told us about yesterday.

Most home systems are Windows based which is just not a good idea. Windows on the desktop yes, but whatever MS claim about Server 2003, Windows is still crap at hosting compared to Linux or FreeBSD. Smile


Actually I pay for a dedicated server (only Celeron) to be hosted down in London which is mainly used for testing and a few of my own sites. But at least I know it'll be working, plus it has Cpanel on it (a true godsend!).

Trev
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MassDebation
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, but now it all comes down to budget, doesn't it? I mean what do you pay for a dedicated server? And how much control over that server do you get?

I agree windows is crappy - that's why I don't even use any of its junk like IIS, etc. Apache does the job nicely enough for my needs, as does other third party software for DNS, Email, FTP, and I wrote my own software to monitor connection & reboot whatever needs rebooting (modem, router, etc etc etc), etc & mail me a daily report of what all's been happenning, make backups, etc

When you don't have a budget for it, you've got two options:
1) Give up on the idea
2) Make a plan.

I opted for 2) Wink
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can get servers from 50/mo, and you get full control....

You must have a budget, because you need to budget for the server you're dedicating to the hosting...

Also, most home connections don't allow hosting servers so you should have a business package which costs more.

Then there's issues of speed - the site will slow right down once it gets remotely popular - and reliability.

I think people who host at home are bonkers when they could get a cheap shared account for a few quid a month with more than enough disk/bandwidth allowances for most sites....and if the site is larger you can go VPS for 30/mo, or a whole server from 50/mo (although I'd go for 80/mo minimum for the extra quality host you'll get).

You can also pull in a decent amount with advertising once your site grows large.
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MassDebation
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Step by step... Wink

Just to elaborate... 50 quid a month doesn't mean you no longer need to pay for your connection at home, so it's at least 50 quid above what you're already paying.

Got some sites with shared hosting, but prefer home to that! When they go down, you email them, who emails the datacenter, and it's a matter of just sit & wait!

Will probably look at renting when size finally warrants it Where would you recommend?
If money was no object, I'd prefer to get a leased line though... perhaps one day!

Very interesting exercise - teaches you a load more than just FTP'ing stuff up to a server & it just magically works...
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Firstly, you don't need a whole server for your sites anyway. Well, unless you've got more than I've seen. You could use shared, reseller or VPS hosting just fine, so I'd say 30/mo.

And don't you value your time? 30 must be, well, I have no idea what you do, but it must be worth an hour or two of your time. And I'll betya it takes you more than a few hours to manage everything.

Why would you prefer a leased line? I think you're mad, quite frankly. Razz

You're not gonna be able to afford a burstable 100mbit connection - ever - to your house. Heck, even 10mbit is way out there. So what happens if you want anything other than text being viewed by more than 5 people at once? Things slow right down, that's what Wink

And what about the issues rasied earlier? Fire, theft, damage, off-site backups, server redundancy, and so on.

Quote:
Got some sites with shared hosting, but prefer home to that! When they go down, you email them, who emails the datacenter, and it's a matter of just sit & wait!

Then you're with a bad host Smile

And how about when your server goes bust? ....everything goes dark until you're home to figure it out, or until you get a spare part. And your net connection? Everything goes dark....

Quote:
Will probably look at renting when size finally warrants it Where would you recommend?

Due to the nature of my job I haven't used many hosting companies, but it depends on what you want. GIYF (Google is your friend) really - but as a rule I'd stay away from the larger companies because the support is generally less personal and overall not so good.

Also - Trev - I think you mean 1(0)mbit/sec, not 10Gbit/sec...I'd be very surprised if you did Razz - most I've ever pushed out is 178mbit/sec, poor lonely me Smile
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MassDebation
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Give it a rest - you'll blow a fuse, mate!

We don't even get anywhere near a dozen online at the same time, and that doesn't even mean a thing if we did. What's the chances they'll all be making an HTTP request simultaneously? 384 upstream is enough for the next good while.

Like I said - when the need arises I'll look at my options. Takes me a day to set everything up & move everything over, so it's far from any kind of train smash. Worst comes to worst, I just simply make a decision & set up. Then once done, change IP at registrar... wait a little while... and carry on.
I'm certainly not gonna go blow money I don't have to please the likes of you... I'm mad, you say? The nerve! Rolling Eyes

And please do tell me some more about what I will be able to and will not be able to afford in the future. You some kind of Nostradamus or what?
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trev wrote:
Bandwidth is an issue such as the 10G/bits this site has been pulling recently, plus at a data centre you get maybe 100M/bit fully burstable connection to use instead of 256K/bits for ADSL. At 9.30 this morning we were pulling over 400K/bits a second so it just wouldn't have worked, and that's just one site.

It costs quite a bit to get kind of bandwidth that hosting company provides. It can cost close to $100 a month. Server (hardware) costs quite a bit. Let's say that you found a used one. Let's say that it costs you $600. You already need to pay $150 a month to host on your own. If you pay that much, you can easily get a managed dedicated server.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MassDebation wrote:

I'm certainly not gonna go blow money I don't have

My point is that you must have some money because you're using a server at home for it, and/or also your time.

Also, you can get shared hosting for literally 5/mo.

Those forum pages are ~120Kb which is a few seconds @ 30k/sec, so when you get a few concurrent users, things will slow down.

Also - if your house catches fire, there goes the lot. At least if you have a hosting account you can back it up at home.

Anyway, your decision. Have a fun ride Cool
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just got a reseller account for around $60 pcm for all my sites, and will probably get a UK based one for UK IPs early next year.

It's just a lot less hassle I think.
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